‘You still sparking? Aye…’ SES’s Rob Clifford on his journey from apprentice electrician to running a £550m business

“When I go back, they say: ‘You still sparking’?” Rob Clifford’s answer is suitably modest. “Aye,” he replies.

If any of Clifford’s schoolmates are reading this, he is the bloke in charge of SES, the Wates-owned M&E specialist that, under his near four-year watch has seen annual income grow nearly four times – from around £150m to an expected £560m this year.

He says he is not really one to bring up work when he returns to his native Carlisle to catch up with old friends. “They don’t really know what I do, I don’t really talk about it to be honest.”

It is easy to see why his friends might still think he is on the tools. He left school at 16 with a few GCSEs and became an apprentice electrician with Lorne Stewart, where he spent six years in total, four of them as an apprentice.

He has done pretty much every job you can as an electrician. He reels them off with speed: “Apprentice, supervisor, site manager, project manager, senior project manager, major projects, operations director, managing director.”

I have done all these jobs. It gives you a different outlook and, for me, it helps build a relationship and rapport with the [site] teams

It is a training that has stood him in good stead, he says. “I have done all these jobs. It gives you a different outlook and, for me, it helps build a relationship and rapport with the [site] teams.

“They have challenges I can relate to. They [initially] see me in a suit, get talking and they realise I was a supervisor once.”

Clifford says it is the simple things that can prove most eye-catching for those working on the sites. “When you are in the canteen and you see the bosses in the suits sitting at the same table next to you having the same sandwich, it makes a big difference. It gives people that connection.”

He says one of the best pieces of advice he got was when he was still a teenage apprentice. His supervisor would not let him get onto the next phase of his apprenticeship until he could demonstrate he could rewire a house from top to bottom, test it and make sure it worked. “His words were, ‘you will always have work if you can do that’.”

Clifford, who turned 48 last month, has moved on from proving that he can rewire homes and has been at Wates since 2015, having joined the firm from rival M&E company Imtech.

He was hired by the late Dave Smith, then the company’s chief operating officer, and speaks with obvious affection and regard for a man who passed away this year aged 65.

Clifford managed the South region at first, then its UK business, before becoming the boss in summer 2020 when it was known as Integrated Construction Services, which included a drylining business. He became managing director of SES in 2023 and executive managing director at the start of the year. He now sits on the Wates executive board.

Some of our more profitable competitors are working in sectors we want to move towards

Under his stewardship, turnover has grown markedly; income was around £175m pre-covid, he says, before it fell to £150m. But the number has gone up ever since. Last year, it jumped 55% to a record £464m. This year it could be another £100m more.

“But the top line is not the important one,” Clifford concedes. Pre-tax profit was up 60% last year to £9.3m, giving it a pre-tax margin of 2%. “It should be more, could be more,” he adds.

Between 3% and 4% is the aim. “Some of our more profitable competitors are working in sectors we want to move towards.”

Clifford says these include data centres and nuclear and defence work – and he wants to see a significant shift in workloads in London.

Of data centres, he says: “We’re having some good conversations with potential customers.” But the firm will stick to UK jobs, having seen others come a cropper on schemes overseas.

You have to have a balance and not be signing contracts where the risks far outweigh the opportunities

“We are being cautious and going in with our eyes wide open,” he adds, pointing out that some of the terms and conditions he has looked at can place too much risk with the contractor.

“People want these facilities brought to life as quickly as they can. They can have demanding programmes and we want to make sure we sign up to the right agreements with realistic programmes.

“You have to have a balance and not be signing contracts where the risks far outweigh the opportunities.”

He thinks data centres could be the firm’s biggest sector in the long run but says defence and nuclear and, in particular, London will not be too far behind.

“There is an opportunity to move into that [defence] space but we’re very early with our inquiries. Equally important is the customer [you work for] as well as the type of project.”

>> See also: ‘On some levels, it’s a straightforward industry but it has significant challenges’ – Wates’ new(ish) CEO on what he’s learnt so far

>> See also: The challenges and opportunities of data centre delivery

In London, SES has recently brought in former MJ Lonsdale founder Michael Hoodless as a non-executive. Clifford says this is a sign of intent: “He is well connected and will raise our profile [in London].”

SES does around £70m of business in the capital but Clifford thinks this could eventually get up to £250m. Its current jobs include the Timber Square mixed-use scheme in Southwark and the 100 New Bridge Street office scheme near Blackfriars station, both for Mace. It has also been working on another Mace job, The Edge London Bridge office development.

“Without doubt [London] could be a main part of the business,” he adds and says the firm will also look at fit-out jobs in the capital, an area Wates has been moving into since the appointment last autumn of Lee Phillips, the former boss of ISG’s fit-out arm, to head up a new business in the area.

All in all, Clifford says the new sectors could eventually bring SES’s turnover towards the £750m mark. “It’s not unrealistic,” he admits.

We benefit hugely from being part of the Wates group but they are a customer of ours and we support them on projects strategically like we support Mace

The biggest current job is a gigafactory in Sunderland, which Wates has been working on since 2022. It is being developed by Japanese battery technology firm Envision AESC, whose parent is the car maker Nissan.

Clifford says around half of its work is with Wates but is quick to point out that the parent is just another client. “We benefit hugely from being part of the Wates group but they are a customer of ours and we support them on projects strategically like we support Mace. Our customers recognise that and we don’t see people saying they don’t want to work with us because we are part of Wates.”

He says the firm’s offsite manufacturing ability – its main base is in Coventry – will grow from its current number of 60 in time. “From an MEP perspective, it’s 100% a value-add.”

It is now called SES Manufacturing, having been known as Prism. “Safety, quality, reducing emissions – the benefits to programmes are huge. You can create a seven-figure saving if you get it right,” Clifford adds. 

He admits that some of the industry is unrecognisable from when he started all those years ago, with several of his near 900 colleagues at SES holding doctorates and PhDs. “The industry has become more attractive to others,” he notes.

“People’s empathy for each other is better. There is more consideration and people are much more professional nowadays.”

While the industry changes, there are some things that are a constant for Clifford. He now lives in Kent with his wife and two daughters but still manages, now and again, trips get back to Carlisle to see his friends.

“When I go up there, I have a pint with them. What I like is they take the piss like they always did. It’s nice having a pint – and watching the football with your mates is always good. Doing it with guys that you grew up with is even better.”

Clifford is a Carlisle United fan and says that, when he goes to Brunton Park, he and his friends all stand in the same spot, like they did when they were kids. He was at the same end when Carlisle’s most famous goal in its history went in – the Jimmy Glass goal in 1999.

Needing a win to stay in the football league, the on-loan goalkeeper scored the winner with the last kick of the last match of the season. “It was like we had won the World Cup,” Clifford says.

That Carlisle succumbed to relegation a few years later does not take the gloss off a memory that is now part of football folklore. “At the end, the team came out to the anthem of The Great Escape.”

His trips to Carlisle are less frequent now that his parents have passed away. He has a brother and a sister still there, but admits: “I don’t really have much time to get up there as much as I’d like to.”

His dad was an electrician and his mum was a nurse. “I’ve a good work ethic,” he says, something that he puts down to his parents. “My dad used to say, it’s not a coincidence: the harder you work, the luckier you get.”