‘I think we could get to £1bn, but I hope we’re not here when that happens…’ BW’s top team on thinking big

“Maybe even £1bn – but I don’t think we’ll be here when that happens.”

BW’s Steve Elliott is talking about turnover figures and what he thinks the firm could get to in the long term. Elliott, who is chief executive of the fit-out firm, and Anthony Brown, the chief marketing officer, bought the business more than a decade ago, when its income was just £65m.

Now, in its most recent set of results, the firm posted a record turnover of £327m, with the company looking at getting this to £500m by 2030 – although Brown says the plan is to hit the target two years earlier.

They are talking in their new office – a stone’s throw away from their home of the past decade and a bit at 5 Old Bailey. “The old place is about 300 yards away,” Elliott says.

They joke that, so far, no staff have decided to jack it in on account of the extra commute to the new office, into which they moved last month, in the Carter Building just off Ludgate Hill on the western fringes of the City.

Brown says he will miss the view of St Paul’s Cathedral from his previous office, but the new address is bigger – it has 140 desks and runs across 16,000sq ft compared to the previous 10,000sq ft – and is just, well, a lot smarter. “The central infrastructure was poor, there weren’t enough loos, the showers weren’t great, we had just outgrown it,” he says of the old place.

For a company whose core business is to give offices a makeover and make them more enticing for staff to work out of, the move to the new office was a no-brainer – a kind of busman’s holiday. BW, naturally, did the work, which took around five months.

“The whole process took about a year, the legals took forever,” Elliott admits.

You can’t win work from your sofa and [the office] is a support centre for staff. Our staff on site don’t get the chance to work from home and we think it’s unfair if some are working from home and others cannot

The new premises boast specially-commissioned artwork, cork floors, meeting rooms to cater for people’s different working needs – “some don’t like having screens on walls, others prefer sofas”, says Brown – and it’s still close to good transport links. “It’s quite a young firm and a lot of the younger people like to go out and socialise,” Elliott says. “Not me, I’m tucked up in bed.”

BW – the name came out of Bellwater Interiors but in fact it stands for Built With – is a five days a week in the office operation and has been for a year now. “We’ve had no kickback,” says Elliott. 

“You can’t win work from your sofa and [the office] is a support centre for staff. Our staff on site don’t get the chance to work from home and we think it’s unfair if some are working from home and others cannot.”

The pair say their clients are also wanting their staff back in the office, preferably five days week. “Friday is the tricky one,” Brown says, “but the office is now about community space.

“Covid changed that. There are a lot more rest and relaxation spaces. Firms are making it more attractive for staff to come in. They’re having to domesticate the office, make it more friendly, soften it for people to come back.”

Elliott, who is 66, and 61-year-old Brown have spent their careers in fit out and racked up a combined 40 years at Overbury before arriving at BW.

The pair got to know each other well during their time at Overbury, joining it within a year or so of each other – Elliott spent slightly longer there – and when turnover was about £10m. They left in 2013, when that figure was £500m.

Last year, Overbury posted an income of £1.6bn and a pre-tax profit of £133m. Overbury’s parent, Morgan Sindall, has issued several profit upgrades in the past year or so – all on the back of a booming fit-out market.

We didn’t want to be taken over. We’re here for the long term and EOTs get buy-in from staff and their loyalty

“It’s a great brand,” Elliott says of Overbury, but the pair left after deciding they could do it themselves. They had been looking at opportunities when they got a call from BW, whose owners were looking to sell up. Would they be interested?

“We were in a yellow cab in New York when we got the call,” remembers Elliott. The pair were in the US a lot looking after Overbury’s clients on the eastern seaboard.

They agreed, on the provision that founders and co-owners Craig Foster and Mark Richards would eventually sell them a stake. Foster and Richards were true to their word and Elliott and Brown, along with two other company directors, completed a management buyout which gave them a 60% shareholding.

Since then, BW has completed a move to an Employee Ownership Trust (EOT) after looking at the concept for the past couple of years.

Elliott says BW had been on the receiving end of several takeover approaches by rivals and institutions. “We didn’t want to be taken over. We’re here for the long term and EOTs get buy-in from staff and their loyalty.”

Before joining BW, a move which was shrouded in secrecy, Elliott was forced to go on gardening leave for a year. “It was a bit tiresome,” he admits but he says it did allow him to spend time with his then five-year-old daughter, indulging her love of make-believe. “I did have some wonderful discussions about fairies,” he says.

At the time he joined, BW had 65 staff and it now has around 320. It could have been bigger if it had decided to pick up some of ISG’s jobs when that firm collapsed 18 months ago.

“We didn’t take on any of their jobs or staff,” Elliott says. “Nothing good comes from trying to finish other people’s work – apart from blame.”

He adds that BW did not want to take on any of ISG’s staff either, for one reason: “It would have upset the balance and people’s careers here.”

Brown says the worst-case scenario of a supply chain decimated by ISG’s collapse failed to happen. “It was such a slow train crash, it took place over two years. People had a chance to prepare for it. I think on quite a few of the projects, clients helped the supply chain.”

BW’s largest job has been a £63m scheme for a tech company in the City and the firm is looking at several jobs worth around £100m that are coming up this year. “We would be quite happy with one or two above £50m, but we like the spread between £5m and £60m,” says Brown.

Clients want a higher quality of finish. They want to make a statement for their staff

Most of the firm’s work is in London – the City, Canary Wharf and West End – although it has worked in the Home Counties and Bristol and is currently working on a job in Barcelona for a tech firm.

Its average job size is around £12m and lasts for around five months. “We just need change,” adds Brown in a reference to its bread and butter – firms looking to spruce up their offices rather than move into new ones.

BW is on eight frameworks for banks and universities, where it does everything apart from accommodation.

Since covid, the pair have noticed that spending on fit-out per square foot has gone up. “Clients want a higher quality of finish,” says Elliott. “They want to make a statement for their staff.”

And since covid, the pair have also noticed how bidding for jobs has changed. There is a lot more animation, filming. “Sometimes I feel we’re like Disney,” says Elliott. “Every other week, there’s a film crew here.”

Elliott and Brown have no plans to retire just yet. “I enjoy it too much,” says Elliott. But they know that one day they will. “The people here are really good and at some point they will want to take control and develop it to the next stage. I’m happy with that.”

In the meantime, BW could get to £400m turnover this year, but Elliott doesn’t plan to be around if the firm gets within touching distance of that £1bn figure. “We’re just scratching the surface, £1bn is possible. I can see it – but I hope I’m not here.”